Do you have a group chat with your girlfriends to talk about finances? Maybe it’s time.
Be ruthless with your time; generous with your love; and serious about your money.
Some conversations stay with you. My conversation with Thasunda Brown Duckett—CEO of TIAA and one of only two Black women leading a Fortune 500 company—is one of them. My thoughts on the wisdom she sharing with me and why it’s been on my mind ever since.
You can listen to the full conversation on my podcast here.
– “Grief is love with no place to go.”
Wow. This one hit me. I lost my dog last year, and the grief still sneaks up on me. The love is still there—just as big—but the thing I’m loving is gone. That’s exactly what grief is: love without a home. But it’s still love. And if we’re lucky enough to have felt that kind of love, in any form, we honor it by letting it be felt—even when it hurts.
– “I rent my title. I own my character.”
I’ve said before that I don’t think anyone should ever stay anywhere for more than 8 years.
Now I’ll add this: when you do walk away—whether it’s from a title, a team, or a chapter—you take you with you. Jobs are temporary. Your values, grit, and integrity stay with you forever.
“Live your life like a diversified portfolio. Allocate your energy with honesty—and reallocate when life demands it.”
Tiffany Dufu calls it “dropping the ball.” Thasunda calls it rebalancing the portfolio. Either way, I’m here for women getting honest about the limits of their time—and the value of their joy. Lately, I’ve been thinking about how ruthless I’ve had to be with my schedule, just to make space for what matters most. And you know what? That kind of discipline feels like love.
An excerpt from our conversation
Reshma: I’m 49, turning 50 this year—and honestly, I’ve been nervous about it. But hearing you talk, I’m starting to feel excited. Everyone says something shifts when you hit 50. Maybe they’re right.
Thasunda: You shift. You know that saying—when you’re flying a plane, you have to put the mask on yourself first? In our 20s and 30s and maybe even part of our 40s, we weren’t doing that. We were doing everything for everyone else—working for the company, raising kids, managing marriages.
But in this part of life, that mask is squarely on your face. And it feels so good. The biggest learning is that it has to be. When you get out of bed, it has to be about you—stretching, going to Pilates, texting a girlfriend, drinking water, whatever it is. That’s not selfish—it’s what allows you to show up well for everything else.
Reshma: What motivated you on this journey—to be this amazing CEO, mom, and human being? You are one of the most impressive leaders I’ve met in a long time. And I’ve met most of them.
Thasunda: That means a lot coming from you.
Reshma: You lead with love, courage, and wisdom. I’m reading Inner Excellence by Jim Murphy, and he talks about how great leaders aren’t chasing success—they’re chasing their own potential. They’re competing with themselves. That reminded me of you.
Thasunda: I’m chasing purpose. And that purpose is uniquely mine. That’s what connects to my potential.
When I think about my journey, perspective matters. No matter how awesome I am, there was a time when this access would never have been afforded to me. I’m first generation, full integration. My dad grew up in Louisiana. My mom, Alabama. They grew up in the segregated South. We were short on money, but long on love, faith, and vision.
My dad used to say, “Dream. Reach for the moon.” Success, to me, is not measured by accolades. It’s measured by whether I’m fulfilling that purpose—to make positive impact.
Reshma: You always say: “I rent my title. I own my character.” What does that mean to you?
Thasunda: It’s how I stay grounded. Because no matter how awesome I am, or what I deliver, there will come a time when someone else will sit in this seat.
But my character? That’s mine. My curiosity, my tenacity, my grit—those are owned assets. So even if I leave the job or lose the business card, I’m still walking away with something that’s mine. That’s the flex—not the title, but the things no one can take away from me.
Reshma: This reminds me of my conversation with Justice Jackson. Her parents also grew up in the segregated South, but they told her: “You can be anything. You can do anything.” That kind of belief gives you the confidence to walk into any room. And for the girls I talk to through Girls Who Code—so many struggle with feeling like they don’t belong. What’s your advice for them?
Thasunda: First, shoutout to Girls Who Code and everything you’re doing. My advice? Know that you never walk into a room alone.
When I walk into a room, I bring Otis and Rosie Brown with me. I bring my kids. I bring Shirley Chisholm. I bring Rosa Parks. I am the result of their sacrifices, their love, their example.
So I walk in with purpose. And I remind myself that the rent has been paid—I’m walking in with ownership.
And to those young girls: Not only do you belong in the room—you have a job to do once you’re there. Bring your perspective. Speak up. And if you feel like you don’t belong, let that feeling breathe—and then let it go.
Reshma: Beautiful. You're literally making me cry. What drew you to finance in the first place?
Thasunda: Looking back, it was about financial insecurity. I felt it growing up. Then I found out about this program called Inroads—it was for minority students to get exposure to corporate America. And that was the first time I even heard the phrase “corporate America.”
That program changed my life. But what really shifted everything was a woman named Valerie Manning. She was only supposed to hire one intern—but she came back and said, “There’s this other girl. Her name’s not Sarah, but I think we should hire her too.” That girl was me.
I started my career at Fannie Mae because someone advocated for me when I didn’t even know what advocacy meant.
Reshma: And now you’re a huge advocate for women and retirement savings. What do we need to know?
Thasunda: First: forgive yourself. Money is emotional. And midlife is the perfect time to take stock—without shame. Pull the numbers. Check your retirement plan. Look at your credit score. Know where you stand.
Then, start small. Start smart. Just do something. If your company offers a 401k match—make sure you’re contributing enough to get it. Don’t leave that money on the table.
And do it with friends. I always say—click on all the things you want to buy online, fill up the cart, get your little dopamine hit... and then don’t check out. The next day, take that money and put it in your savings instead. That’s the move.
Reshma: I love that. And I love how often you come back to this idea of sisterhood—like creating a group chat for your finances. I have one with my girlfriends for everything but money. But I want to change that.
Thasunda: Yes! Five girlfriends. Wine, laughter, real talk. No shame. Create a space where you can say: “Here’s what I’m struggling with. Here’s what I want to do.” And then start learning together. Do the research. Build the habits. We don’t have to do this alone. And we shouldn’t.
While you’re here.
ICYMI: My episode on Meghan Markle’s podcast went live yesterday.
Have you read Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson’s Abundance yet? It’s on my end table, and I’ve been marking it up as I go. It’s got me thinking about what it would really look like to live from a place of abundance—not just in our resources, but in time, love, possibility. Especially in midlife, when everything feels like a tradeoff, that shift isn’t easy—but maybe it’s necessary.
Moms First brought 50 business leaders to Washington last week to meet with lawmakers — Democrats and Republicans alike — to talk about why child care is one of their top concerns. This has never been done before. My takeaway is this: Make it a point to talk to your Congressperson. The lawmakers told us over and over again that our voices really do matter. Make sure to tell them your child care story. Get involved at momsfirst.us
Until next time,
Reshma